Anti-Gay "Crusader" seems to be gay, again

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Anti-Gay "Crusader" seems to be gay, again

Postby the_ignored » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:49 pm

From Science Avenger:

Florida State Rep. Bob Allen, longtime anti-gay crusader who was recently arrested for soliciting an undercover cop posing as a gay prostitute, has a novel excuse: all the blacks in the park made me do it.


Unfortunately, his link only goes to that of a gay-specific site, and a post to Dispatches from the Culture Wars blog.

No big deal, but for news stories, I want to see the original news sources. So, I had to hunt and search to find the actual news story.

More reports from actual news sources can be found by googling "Bob Allen" and "Titusville"


When one does that, and picks out the first cached link, which is a story from the OrlandoSentinal.com's August 16, 2007 edition, one finds this:

"This was a pretty stocky black guy, and there was nothing but other black guys around in the park," Allen, who is white, told police in a taped statement after his arrest. Allen said he feared he "was about to be a statistic" and would have said anything just to get away.



Anyway, the Science Avenger's last comment bears some examination:

The apparent correlation between being rabidly anti-gay in public and secretly gay in private gets another data point. How many do we need before we accept that this obsessive behavior is a form of self-hatred, and stop pretending these people have any objectivity at all? Personally, I think it is high time that every anti-gay crusader get asked whether he is gay in his private life, and can he prove it? It would be justice, and great entertainment as well.


How many data points do you think we'd need before we could guess at such a theory?
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Postby Sans_Deity » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:49 pm

That depends on what case you're trying to make - and most of them are logically flawed...

1. Any rabid opponent of something is a secret proponent.

That's a generalization that simply doesn't fly. Am I a secret Christian or Scientologist just because I strongly oppose their tenents? A single data point kills this claim.

2. The more strongly someone criticizes something in public, the more likely they are to engage in it, in private.

Same problem...but you can at least come up with a correlation - and that's the key. We're talking about correlation here, not causation. As long as it's possible for someone to seriously oppose something without being a secret adherent...the correlation carries little weight.

That doesn't mean we can't have fun with it. I've seen folks who think that Fred Phelps is secretly gay, for this precise reasoning. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong - but it's an amusing (yet sad) hypothesis.

-Matt
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Postby bugsoup » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:02 pm

Sans_Deity wrote:That doesn't mean we can't have fun with it. I've seen folks who think that Fred Phelps is secretly gay, for this precise reasoning. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong - but it's an amusing (yet sad) hypothesis.

-Matt


This gave me an idea about how to attract free advertisers to any cause. Let's say you want to promote a book about Atheism. Simply send the Phelps clan some protesters with signs that say "Fred Phelps Loves Gays" or "Phelps Is Gay", then give them a copy of the book and tell them where the book signing is. I would predict that whatever mechanism allows the world to know where Phelps and his hatemongers will be protesting next will kick into high gear. Then WBC shows up at the Barnes and Noble along with all sorts of news crews looking for a story (or a confrontation). Instant news coverage for an Atheist book signing is sure to get people;s attention.
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Postby the_ignored » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:17 am

Sans_Deity wrote:That depends on what case you're trying to make - and most of them are logically flawed...
True...I didn't think of that all that much.


Sans_Deity wrote:1. Any rabid opponent of something is a secret proponent.

That's a generalization that simply doesn't fly. Am I a secret Christian or Scientologist just because I strongly oppose their tenents? A single data point kills this claim.

2. The more strongly someone criticizes something in public, the more likely they are to engage in it, in private.

Same problem...but you can at least come up with a correlation - and that's the key. We're talking about correlation here, not causation. As long as it's possible for someone to seriously oppose something without being a secret adherent...the correlation carries little weight.


Yep, that's what I'm thinking now...so now I'm wondering if "Science Avenger" was being sarcastic or not...I was just now going to post to his site with pretty much what you said, only I realized I'd maybe look stupid for not catching on that he was being sarcastic. :oops:




Sans_Deity wrote:That doesn't mean we can't have fun with it. I've seen folks who think that Fred Phelps is secretly gay, for this precise reasoning. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong - but it's an amusing (yet sad) hypothesis.

-Matt



On a side note...I've seen lots of cases where people attack gay-bashers by saying that they must be secretly gay, but I've almost never seen anyone attack christian/muslims, etc. by saying that they must be closet athiests or harbouring secret doubts about their faith.

I have, though rarely, heard people attack athiests by saying that they must really believe in "god" in their core, to be attacking "Him" so much...


I'm the KING of last minute edits!
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Postby Carneades » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:53 am

What I find most astonishing, and terribly sad, is that Allen would rather be known as a racial bigot than acknowledge that he is gay. Only religion could cause someone to try hiding a perfectly harmless sexual preference by declaring themselves to be a racist. When I stop to consider how many people have had to suffer this sort of purposeless self-loathing because of these ridiculous abrahamic religions, I really feel like crying. But instead I think I will just increase my efforts to send these religions to that "graveyard called mythology." (To paraphrase Sam Harris.)
"We have begun to contemplate our origins: starstuff pondering the stars..." -Carl Sagan
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Postby Kasa » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:01 pm

The daily show has a great clip about this story. I don't think you could prove a causation in that way but rather it could be possible to show that in a social group, like a religeous order, that demands a certian kind of opinion and behavior a person with the undesired behavior would be very prone to hidding it and even more prone to verbally bashing it. It think that it would be relitivly simple to prove something like that. Besides Karl Rove leaving the Bush administration this is one of the best news stories recentally.
A drug attict is told by science that the addiction is killing him, he understands but does it anyway because he is addicted.

A theist is told by science that his religeon is blinding him, he doesn't understand because his addiction is too strong.
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